And Far Away...

Thursday, April 27, 2006

It's no big secret that I'm a feminist, and my first push into feminism was a song.

Ironically enough, I had completely forgotten about that song until I found a cassette today under the front seat of my car, and as Mood FM was playing sappy music (I can't tolerate sappy music for the life of me), I popped it into my cassette player only to find out that it is a collection of my favorite No Doubt songs. Within a few minutes, I found myself listening preplexed to a song I know so well, a song that, back in 1996, pushed me into the first step of becoming who I am today.

Take this pink ribbon off my eyes
I'm exposed, and it's no big surprise
Don't you think I know exactly where I stand?
This world is forcing me to hold your hand
'Cause I'm just a girl, little 'ol me
Don't let me out of your sight
I'm just a girl, all pretty and petite
So don't let me have any rights
The moment that I step outside
So many reasons for me to run and hide
I can't do the little things I hold so dear
'Cause it's all those little things that I fear
'Cause I'm just a girl I'd rather not be
'Cause they won't let me drive late at night
I'm just a girl, guess I'm some kind of freak
'Cause they all sit and stare with their eyes
I'm just a girl, take a good look at me
Just your typical prototype
I'm just a girl in the world...
That's all that you'll let me be!
I'm just a girl, living in captivity
Your rule of thumb makes me worry some
I'm just a girl, what's my destiny?
What I've succumbed to Is making me numb
I'm just a girl, my apologies
What I've become is so burdensome
I'm just a girl, lucky me
Twiddle-dum there's no comparison
Oh...I've had it up to here!

Ahh... Those words make me shiver.

It's funny being a feminist in a country where the majority of the populace are mostly machismo pigs. A few days ago, I was having this really heated debate with a few guys about the role of women in society as well as their rights. Our main debate points were the following:

1) I believe with a severe passion that young females should be provided with equal oppurtunities as their male counterparts so that when the day comes when they need to decide whether to become housewives or working women, they have free will in the sense where they are fully aware of their options and the consequences of their decisions. The guys thought that it is a woman's god-given duty to sit at home, cook, clean, and take care of children, "I wouldn't mind if my wife works before we have children, but as soon as we do, I would not get married to someone who wouldn't stay at home to take care of them."
I say, toz. I respect a woman who is herself first and foremost, rather than a mother, a housewife, and a childbearer.

2) I believe that religious rules are mostly outdated. I'll end this point here.

3) I am very much against gender roles. I do not think that it is a woman's god-given duty to cook, clean, and raise, nor is it a man's god-given-duty to provide for the household. A couple may switch roles if it makes them more comfortable. Of course, I'm always attacked severely in regards to this point, "Ba6al zalameh ili bog3od bil beit." It always makes me say, "Mish fahmeh ya3ni, 3eib 3al zalameh yo2-3od bil beit o mish 3eib 3al wa7deh?"
I personally am not willing to be in a relationship where I do not make my own money or at least participate in the budget of maintaining the relationship and all that may involve it including a house, children, and so on and so forth (this is where people usually jump in and scream "With a degree in fine arts?!" Yes, mish 3ajebkom?)

Naturally, after an hour-long debate, the conclusion these guys reached was hilarious- "Roba, you know what happens to women like you? They never get married."

Hehe, I found that absolutely amusing! It's ironic how people think it is more appropriate to be unsatisfied, unhappy, and married than satisfied, successful, and unmarried.

Finally, a story and a question. A while ago, one of my male friends told me with an extra bout of confidence that he would never be with a woman who is smarter or as smart as he is, because as a man and like every other man, he thinks a woman slightly dumber is "easier to manage". I was shocked silly to hear that, especially as he was someone I respected. When I expressed my shock and offense, he simply said, "Come on, Roba, admit it, wouldn't you want to be with a man who is smarter than you? Women like that."

Double whammy. According to this friend, men like dumber women and women like smarter men. Now, I'm posing this question to everyone- what do you think? Do you agree with this person?

Question open to both genders. I would really appreciate honesty, I wouldn't bite anyone I promise.

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65 Comments:

I'm 62.3% with you on this one.

I believe girls and women should be allowed to develop to their full potential and fully pursue "life, liberty, and happiness". But I do think that men and women are different, and that women -in general- tend to be more family oriented than career oriented.

Still, I'm totally against forcing anyone to make pre-determined life choices. I would expect my future wife to work (if for no other reason than not getting bored at home), and she has to be intelligent. As for being more intelligent than me, I wouldn't mind in theory, but I doubt that such a person exists in reality ;p OK OK I'm not THAT deluded, no, I wouldn't mind... but I might be a little uncomfortable to be honest :)

By Ziad, at 1:58 AM
LOL Ziad. Well, I'm not saying that it is wrong to be family-oriented, it is fantastic to be so if the woman decided to be so after being educated properly and so on and so forth. I also think that culture shouldn't play a role in deciding that- it should circle around free will.
And thanks for being honest :)

By Roba, at 2:04 AM
Admit it Roba !

You are a lesbian in the closet!

By Anonymous, at 2:13 AM
Hey Roba,
It's me from phoenix again. You've just tapped into one of my favorite subjects to dicuss. I agree with you on some points, but have different views on others.
I tend to be more career oriented, rather than family, but my sister is the opposite. The point is that everyone is different. I hate it when people think that women are the house, and men are for the workforce. Everyone has different strengths.
But one thing I disagree with you 100% on is that when a woman has children, it's okay for her to work at the same time. Unless the family is stuggling financially, then the woman should stay home and raise kids she has had. So many kids I know have serious "issues" because their mother wasn't home to take care of them. Nothing can replace a mom, no matter how hard a father can try. I think though that when the kids become teenagers, the mother should go back to her career where she left off.

As for my husband being smarter than me--I honestly don't care. I would hope however that we would be on the same level, then each have different strengths. That's what marraige is supposed to be about isn't? Complimenting your mate.

By Linda Haddad, at 2:18 AM
I agree to a great extent with Ziad. But I wanna add something, don't attach yourself to an idea, attach yourself to the truth. Because sometimes we like the ideas we get by our thinking to the extent that we stop looking for our own truth that will make us really happy and comfort. By the way I'm completely with the freedom of choice for every single person whoever her/his sex...

By The Eyewitness, at 2:22 AM
I like what you saind too Linda Hadad.

By The Eyewitness, at 2:24 AM
When you start a company, you should seek and employ people that are smarter than you.... so why should marriage be different? I for one will pick my wife based on a "rigorous selection criteria" ;)

PS, Ladies applications now open!

By Abed, at 2:47 AM
Good Point Abed

By Linda Haddad, at 2:53 AM
It's funny, whenever I say I'm a feminist, especially in Ukraine, people look at me weird, and then issue non-sequitors such as, "well then, I guess that means you'll be single for the rest of your life!"

I have to laugh in their face, because I've been in a committed relationship for two and a half years now, and I definitely see myself getting married and having kids down the road.

Unfortunately, a goal-oriented woman still manages to instill fear in insecure men who like women to be "dumber" (that's the only real reason why your friend would say that, he obviously doesn't value himself a whole lot), not to mention the insecure women who do not wish to achieve their full potential and would rather spend the rest of their lives unequal to men.

Honestly, I'd be bored to tears with a dumb man, and I think it's pretty clear that my man would be bored to tears with me if I were dumber. Morons irritate both of us, actually. Guess we have that in common.

Oh, and I just love the cowardly anonymous comment. First of all, it's a well-known ruse, accusing a feminist of being a lesbian. Second of all, what the hell is wrong with being a lesbian? Other people's sex lives are nobody's damn business, as far as I'm concerned.

By Natalia, at 2:57 AM
OK, I should probably not post this right now and allow myself some time to calm down, but since I have already established a reputation of hotheadedness and saying pretty much anything when I'm mad, here goes:

I'm gonna respond specifically to your question asking if we agree with this person who wants a wife dumber than his dumb self.

Only men with illusory confidence and small, tiny.....no, nothing....only men who just aren't that smart to BEGIN with can possibly still think like that, or so I tell myself. How can a man ask for a wife not so heavy in the smarts department, then expect that woman to raise and influence and mould his children??? Who would want a dumb broad raising the kids??? WHAT?!?!??!

And how do mean who are attracted to an intelligent, independent, well spoken woman in the first place, want her to settle down and change when she gets married. HOW DOES THAT MAKE SENSE???

When will it be understood that marriage is a partnership, and an exchange of ideas? Marriage is a CHOICE. As it should be a CHOICE for a woman to do whatever she wants with her life, within or without the institute or marriage.

Men, allow us to contribute, we bring SO MUCH to the table, you have no idea. Things have been left up to you for so long and look at the MESS everything's in. How about you try it our way for a change, hhhmmm? And listen, here's a fact you just can't mess with: we are ultimately much smarter than you are. We can't help it. It's in our genes. Those of you how disagree are in denial. Really.

Eft eft.

By Rambling Hal, at 3:16 AM
Na, I agree with you totaly, and i would rather marry a girl who is smarter or as smart as me :)

By bakkouz, at 3:18 AM
Personally I need a partner who is on the same level with me, I mean it's really a partnership!
I think those who are after someone less smart than them are actually weak and feel threatened!
Define smarter? Is it their IQ result? Education? Bigger head? I think every person is smart on his/her own way!

I've stated it before on my blog that I wish to see all Jordanian women smart, being able to express them selves! I think here http://iheartamman.blogspot.com/2006/03/give-women-chance.html

Roba, take it easy dear....Change doesn't come easily, it takes lots of time and wisdom! Wisdom as not to offend others for what they belief! I mean who is right and who is wrong? Both are right and both are wrong! And each individual have the right to believe in something as far as it's not affecting you.

Women take better care of kids, it is with no doubt!So it's really a trade off between kids and women independence!

TAKING CARE OF KIDS vs. ACHIEVING INDEPENDENCE AND EQUITY

You see, if all women choose not to be child bearers and go after their goals, I mean sort of what is going in Euorpe, after a while your population will become less and threatened, they keep letting in immigrants and problems keep generating! No kids no future!

Oh well I still think that everyone has the right to choose whatever they wish! And each party should respect the others and their choices! So it's really up to you and your partner,so if you think he's after you because he thinks you are dumber then leave him, if he's after you, wither you are smart or not it's your own buisness!

So according to your firend theory,if you are a smart girl you will like someone smarter, so you both are actually smart! Problem solved!It's up to you later to decide who is smarter (play hide and seek or something)

Afterall I'm after a girl who is smart enough to figure out how to change my cell autolock time, it's pissing me off!

Dumb and Dumber!

"Machismo pigs" ?? ooof! Take it easy

By Firas, at 3:44 AM
Salam,

I keep telling my wife to work, so I can sit home and act my kid’s age, she won't go for it.

I do not see the "smarter then me point", I mean wouldn't you want to be with someone who is compatible? I thought that's what marriage is all about equal partners
( 6onjarah ew lakat gha6aha ).
But I guess I was wrong.
What does he mean by smarter than him? I mean how do you measure her/his smartness? does he score high grades at school? book worm? street smart?
I think what he meant is he wouldn’t marry a women that can intimidate him.
Roba, there are a lot of Arab men (mostly abroad or been abroad) who careless if their wife would work or not (that's her decision), married couple learn to communicate and plan their lives together, I mean when getting married you have to agree on your priorities together. In my case Kids come first, my wife rather go to school and take of our kids, although she worked all her life in Amman. I have no problem with that. If she decided to work, I don't have a problem with that either because we have our friend's kids who I watched grow up from the age of zero, and they can baby-sit our kids.

By PALFORCE, at 3:50 AM
I think the intelligence argument is a moot point. First because it is extremely difficult to measure or gauge intelligence. The only real way would be by looking at an individual's personal education levels (High school, undergraduate, graduate, post graduate) but even then that isn't a complete analysis

Second, It has been generally observed, in freer societies, that mean and women look for spouses of equal education attatinment. That is to say, a high school graduates tend to marry high school graduates, the same for People with undergraduate degrees and graduate degrees. If I'm not mistaken the biggest divide is between people who haven't gone to college versus people who have, where most people with college degrees mostly marry people with similar or higher degrees.

But just like everything in Jordan, I believe the question at hand is inherently a class issue. I would find it extremely hard to believe that an Amman Bacclaureate School, Modern Montessori, possibly even New English and maybe another handful fo schools' graduates would marry an individual with less education attainment than themselves. If we take those schools as a class signifier (as only the very wealthy can afford to send their kids to those schools) then I believe it would be very hard to find a graduate from one of those schools, especially ABS, who has married a woman who does not hold an undergraduate degree.

The only real reason that the other stratas of Jordanian socity does not exhibit these tendencies is due to basic backwardness, lack of a proper education and the prevlance of medieval and or tribal beliefs.

But then again even with the elite in Jordan, a college degree especially from a foriegn university is also a class signifier.

And people say that the west is infatuated with class, I find Jordanian society to be extremely stratified.

This might be an extreme view, but I also find that if we employ marxist analysis in the gender issue, and abstract labour to become homogeneous and would include housework. We would find no real difference between housewives and prostitutes, The sole difference being that a housewife is joined to one man.

Both housewives and prostitutes sell COMPANIONSHIP and sex for money and security. They engage in a contract exchanging sexual services and companionship for rewards such as money and security. There have even been documented cases of courtesans who attach themselves to a single man for a high enough price where they reserve their services to that single individual. A housewife even goes beyond that by providing her body as medium through which the man can extend his family line through bearing sons. botht he prostitute and the housewife, enter this agreement, in most cases willingly. A more valid marriage, based less on prostitution would be one where the power dynamic is augmented from a one side male oriented capital holding situation, to one where both individuals own capital and accrue it individually and then share it communally can this power dynamic be overcome.

Of course, this analysis, only holds up if use critical marxist methodology, which is not entirely valid, far from it probably, but its an interesting way of thinking especially for these issues.

I think a more improtant question than intelligence would be how much money the woman earns versus the man, Men generally tend to be intimidated by women making more money than them, I refer you to freakonomics which had an interesting study on this within the context of online dating

Khaled

By Anonymous, at 4:00 AM
I don't want to repeat what others have already said here, but I really don't believe there's a way to "measure" how smart someone is. Looking up educational records doesn't cut it for me because some talents and "smarts" can't be measured. Personally, I want a man who can stimulate me intellectually, not just stare at me like what I said just flew over his head :) Just because a woman would want a smart man, doesn't mean that she is necessarily less smart than him. But I do think that many men don't like to be "challeneged" by their significant other, that's why many would opt for a woman they *think* isn't as smart as them.

On a side note, I always say that I think it's amazing how the Prophet married a woman older, wiser, and much more financially successful and influential than he was at the time. Nevertheless, he loved her the most and always respected her wisdom. Ahhhh, if only Arab men could think of this example.

By moi, at 5:18 AM
I don't know why there are people asking for a quantifiable definition of "smarter", isn't it obvious?

The issue, like someone said above, is strictly one of self confidence, or lack thereof, and insecurity of someone who'd want a less intelligent life partner.

By Oleander, at 7:00 AM
I have said before that level of education is not necessarily a direct indication of intelligence nexessarily, but in defense of that, let me say the following,

Intelligence in itself can be quite worthless if it is not matched by a sustained and systematic method of not only knowledge acquisition but also in the development of that intelligence. A person who is way above average in intelligence but only went to high school or did not complete high school is probably intellectually no match for an individual with a liberal arts education at the college level in terms of a sustained argument.
For example, at the college level, or a at a good university, History no longer becomes a discipline discussing historical events and trends and how or why those events or trends occurred but rather it becomes a discussion on historiography.

With Literature, it is the same, it is not a matter of understanding the plot or how the (literary devices) similies, alliteration, metaphors, etc,,, add to the narrative, but rather it becomes a discussion on critical theory/

and so on and so forth, so I think in the absence of any other measure, I think level of education, and quality of education is a good signifier in terms of what level of thinking a person is capable of or is capable of or has been trained to think at a higher level.

you can have a highly intelligent individual living in a tribe in the middle of nowhere with little or no formal education, even if that individual scores higher than 99% percent of the population in an IQ test, that person would be not be on the same level of a college or masters student with a much lower IQ.

Nevertheless, it is definitely by no means an accurate way of measuring practical intelligence.

But as I said before, in freer societies people of the same education level tend to find each other in marriage, and that a more relevant question is income levels and how men might only marry persons with lower icnomes.

Khaled

By Anonymous, at 8:29 AM
just to re-emphasize,

in Jordan, it is purely a matter of class, which is also being ignored in this question, take a trip down to ABS and you'll see that men and women graduating from that school will in no way marry someone who is beneath their education level by a wide margin, specifically, a very tiny minute, number of people men or women would marry someone without a university degree who ahve come out of those schools, that is not because the people at those types of schools are in any way more itnelligent but because their degrees denote a class position especially if they are from foregin universities but not necessarily.

of course there are exceptions but they are extremely few.

It seems that the wealthier women in society seem to have that job and generally make choice to marry someone with the same education level, whereas the not as privelaged women never really have an opportunity to make that choice,

By Anonymous, at 8:37 AM
Hi Roba, while not being a feminist in the strict sense of the word I do agree with you. Maybe that's why I'm still single ? have not found a man as smart as I am ( joke ). By the way great blog I'll be back !

By Damascene, at 9:15 AM
Quick point, I agree that my friends question is silly and way besides the point. I also agree that intelligence is a very hard issue to compare. But like Oleander said, the real question here is in terms of personality dominance, and not exactly in IQ scores.
Personally, I don't think it's an issue provided that the level of intelligence is on the same lengthwave- slightly more, slightly less, either way. Other issues pertaining would be more important. At least to me.

By Roba, at 9:28 AM
Roba,check out my blog,there you will find all my sympathy.
http://reflections-allmine.blogspot.com/2006/04/ya-7araaam.html

By salam, at 10:27 AM
it's just about D/S relation, about who enjoys being Submissive and who enjoys being Dominant, you know we live for our satisfactions or what else! we all have either of these two to an extent. most girls just enjoys the feeling of being weak in front their men, that she is protected by him, by doing so you are giving out responsibilities, you wont worry about being afraid from not being able to do a thing, cuz he the strong capable one will do it for u, exactly as the lyrics of that song goes… she just wants the man to be dominant to feel more secure from the world, while the man wants her to be submissive to feel more secure from her!! Ya3ni she is afraid from the world while he is afraid from her! Strange! Mother nature managed to attach these feelings to chemistry, that’s why a girl would say im turned on by a guy with a strong personality! .... anyway is she dump for doing this or is she actually smart for finding a good solutions against her fears! but what about her freedom!....bur more important is it lead by cultural trend, or by person choice?! Is it based on outdated chemistry? natural acts leads cultural trends, then cultural trends force it’s rules on the rest!.... I’m looking for a change.

"According to this friend, men like dumber women and women like smarter men. Now, I'm posing this question to everyone- what do you think? Do you agree with this person?"

Direct answer to your question, what i think in the world of reality outside ideality, the real scenario is that smart women wont settle for dumper men!! while guys wont mind dumper women! And wont even care figuring out she is smarter,… you know their brains are busy processing other major girls issues…. and being a smart for her sake, will be just and object for his aim.

By husams, at 10:55 AM
Salaam;

My first response, I suppose, are to the responses! Heh.

I completely disagree that it's possible to measure someone's intelligence by how much schooling she or he did or didn't receive. Trust me, I have known brilliant people who never completed high school and complete morons walking around with Ph.Ds. In fact, the vast majority of all the morons I have known, people chronically unable to form a single coherent sentence in their native language, have been people holding bachelor's degrees. [/rant] on judging people before you get to know them, basing what you think on external, completely irrevelant factors.

As far as gender roles go...it's undeniable that some of it is biological. I saw an article title a few days back that sums it up nicely: same hardware, different software. Having said that, though, I see no reason -- not even any religiously mandated reasons -- to say that "here's a woman's place, here's a man's place, and never shall the twain meet or intermingle". That's just not feasible in today's world, nor has it ever been particularly true. I am all for the education of women, and for their career training, in WHATEVER field they chose. Even if a woman does choose to stay at home after marriage, or after she has children, she'll always need to have an eye to the future. She'll always need to be able to provide for her family at a moment's notice, because it's impossible to know what the future holds, and in today's society, even in a place like Jordan, a woman can no longer count on her extended family to support her and her children should the worst occur. Everyone is struggling to keep their heads above water these days.

As far as intelligence goes -- I, personally, could never marry a man stupider than myself. I don't see how anyone can bear to be around someone whose brain power doesn't equal their own. It's intolerable to have to spend time in the company of someone who thinks so slowly that you can hear the gears grinding in their skulls, and to constantly outpace them in Mental Olympic Sprinting (I should qualify that by saying I mean normal people, and not people suffering from disabilities, which is a completely different basket of apples). Anyone who does enjoy that has a serious issue. I'm far from being a slouch myself in the brain department so I know of which I speak. If I have frightened men with my intelligence it's a big "oh, well, whatEVER" because what woman really needs a guy like that anyway?

And I've yet to meet a man smarter than me anyhow...a few equals, yes, but no Einsteins.

By alienbea, at 12:21 PM
Well, I have recently realized that men are deluded. its something having to do with the maturity levels, and we all know that women reach maturity at an earlier age than men.

Think about it, guys. all you care about is how do you make your muscles stronger? your brains are the same way, but you dont use them as much as we do or excercise them ;) and coz of this most of you want a less smarter partner! so she will not know that her husband is just an empty brain :)

By wedad, at 12:50 PM
if that guy was my friend i would tell him this :" you will never get married cause abviously a little kid is smarter than you"

thumbs up for u roba

By manal yusuf, at 12:54 PM
interesting argument unfolding here, as khaled said in Amman its a class thing and i would have to agree with him on that.

there has been significant development in Jordan regading female participation in public life over the past five or years. I think its a start and a good one, recently there has been some adjustment as to increase the quota of women in the parilament and we have also witnessed an increase in female ministers..

a few more points to note, feminism or pro women movements in Jordan have a regional bias and are really centered in Amman proper, as we move out of amman such notions of femininsm or increased participation of women is likely to be heard of.
also within Amman, its a class based movement either amongt the educated or the polititically active

faris

By faris, at 2:31 PM
I Simply can not afford standing by a women who is less smart than me... it annoys me!
I've always had this deep thought the "Mostly" Women can do anything, maybe they wont be perfect in a specialized feild, but more than 1 at once... a thing that men "Mostly" dont! They get profs in 1 and only 1 thing "Mostly" in their life...

Conclusion, Women utilize their RAMs in a better way :P

By nasimjo©, at 3:36 PM
Oh ya Roba ... you touched a nerve and spoke my mind as well as many others

I agree with you totally ... and I guess it is no surprise that I do, right? ;)

As for your friend's question .. don't judge him for it .. 7aram .. as most guys are obsessed with the idea .. they are intimidated by smarter women .. attracted to them to a great extent .. but would think millions of times before attempting to commit to them .. and more often than not .. they do not ..

As for me .. I would prefer to marry someone who is at my level or higher .. but not lower .. just because I do not have much tolerance or patience .. and I would like to enjoy my life with someone who can speak to my mind ..

Great post as always!

By Khalidah, at 3:54 PM
Hi Roba. I'm a male from East Jerusalem, Al-Quds Al-Sharqiyyah (I always hate that I have to say it.)
Any way, your thoughts are always fresh and a joy to read. Now about smart spouses: people who socialize with others and have healthy and open social interactions will eventually end up with spouses that are at their level: positive social interactions are great equalizers. People who don't, and there are many in the Arab world, will resort to arranged marriages and end up with who knows what! Unfortunately, even "highly" educated Arabs tend to follow the second route!
And how do you end up with friends like those? Really, do you cherish their friendship and seek to see them again, or is this a one-time occurrence. Please say it is a one-time thing. I hate to believe a "smart" woman like you would see those morons again!

Last, let me tell you about a smart woman. My brother is politically active and this has cost him many trips to Israeli prisons. In between trips, he decided to marry and asked my mother to look for a wife for him (Mind you, he is on the left side of politics!) Anyway, he ended up marrying a distant cousin from actually Al-Zarqa. The wife had only high school education and on top of that, had to move a different environment than the one she grew up in. Luckily for my brother, she just happens to be smarter than him. To make the story short, she immediately started working, had 4 kids while working full time and also, for quite few years, had her husband in prison. She even managed to gain a university degree. All the time she was and is still working.

Please stay away from idiot Arabs (who from the previous posts happen to be from both genders) They don’t deserve a single calorie of your brain energy.

By Qudsi, at 3:55 PM
Another quick note, I agree that class is a significant player in this issue, but unfortunately, these friends I am refering to are all from upper-middle class or upper class. They all went to co-ed international schools.

By Roba, at 4:21 PM
Qudsi, hala la ahel East Jerusalem. Since you asked about this friend, I was good friends with this particular person at some point (and he's quite progressive), but we don't speak anymore for unrelated reasons.
The guys I was debated with are not my friends though- they are actually my friend's friends.

By Roba, at 4:27 PM
I'd love someone smart, to learn something from and share experience with.
And this stay at home to cook thing is a crap.

By Nader, at 4:44 PM
Roba, I salute you! Excellent post, I give it a two-thumbs up and would give it more, had I more thumbs.

By Betqa, at 5:56 PM
bakkouz,

"I agree with you totaly, and i would rather marry a girl who is smarter or as smart as me"

i dont think it will be very difficult to fulfill your request, lol

By Anonymous, at 6:09 PM
"Not all Conservatives are stupid, but all stupid people are Conservative"

True humanity progresses and can't remain stagnant. But what seems progress to some is regress to others. You can call it women emancipation, others call it moral degradation. Science has been marginalized in the debate on equality because the proponents of absolute equality (as opposed to relative equality) have rejected it as an arbitrator.

Maybe we should visit societies where this absolute equality was achieved and see for ourselves the success of this experiment? I have my verdict on that having lived in the UK for 10 years, but I'll leave it to others to dwell into this question and to dissect the experiments we have at hand and to try to go beyond the surface of what is apparent before reaching any conclusion.

Roba, I many times feel you are reacting strongly to your upbringing in Saudi? Without attempting to draw a parallel, but just to show how destructive is "reactionarism" is, Zarqawi was an alcoholic baltagi in Zarqa before he reacted strongly to his past. We need to keep our moderation and objectivity in assesing any idea.

By Jameel, at 6:21 PM
Forgot to say, the aferomentioned quote is from Stuart Mill's writings. Can't remember which of his works

By Jameel, at 6:22 PM
Smart women are a pain because it is inevitably coupled with their jealousy and their cunningness. this killer formula makes it draining because a man has to intellecutually convince a woman he is loyal, emotionally convince her he loves her, and all the while try to avoid her cunningly prepared traps. All this while him being really loyal and sincere. There is an arabic saying that goes (of course it is a fallacy to believe that anything old is right, but conventional wisdom is time-tested so some extent):

كيدنا هد جبال وكيدهن هد رجال

(our craftiness crushed mountains, and their craftiness crushed men)

I hope I managed to tilt the boat slightly in the favour of all the poor men of today, lol

By Kamal, at 6:30 PM
Hi Roba,

it's interesting to read all different opinions.

I do not like making comparisons as such "who is smarter - him or I?".
I find myself being attracted to the skills and positive qualities that I do not have (there are a lot of them :)... I remember learning in a Psychology class, that it's not the interest or the education level (if this refers to smartness or dumbness) that keeps two people together, but their values. Education for me has a great value, and therefore I'd most likely be attracted to someone who is curious about the world and is constantly trying to learn new things - on the other hand I have zero musical hearing and so every time I see a good live band I am attracted to the entire crew -regardless of their looks :)

By Elvi, at 6:31 PM
this is going to be fast, because I am "mish tweel roo7" :)
for starter, regarding the thing about dumb women like smart men ..well, this is just ridiculous ! it is so ridiculous that it makes me wanna scratch my eyeball so hard until it bursts..
and finally,*hoof*, I do believe that women and men should have equal opportunities, if my wife ever wants to help put food on the table.. well then, that is just fine.. but - yes there is a but! - if we're ever going to have children then there is no way in hell she is going to continue working .. why ? because she HAS TO take care of the children, I mean .. come on .. I can't breas feed a child, even if I squeeze the heck out of my nipp.. it just won't squeeze up milk. say, I dont care about my children's health status and give them an "artificial nippl" to suck on all day long, men are just not passionate enough to handle them, I mean .. I dont recall my father ever staying up at night beside my bed when I was sick, and I believe niether do u, all I remember is my mother's voice singing for me, and I LOVE her for that, it isn't really an issue of personality and character and the right to have a right, it is just the way it is, and there is nothing wrong with that, I just can not get it into my head.. why do women feel so offended when they're told that it's their god-given duty to stay at home and take care of the kids??.. this just might be the greatest damn job in the entire universe .. dont u think ?!
now, that was not fast, wasn't it ? I guess I just got carried on .. :P
this is just my opinion .. and I did not really wanna seem sexist, I apologize if I did, it was not my intention. l8r !

By meatBall, at 6:31 PM
Time to express an outsider's opinion from the evil infidel West.

Smart women rock. If I ever marry someone, she has to be smart. We can forever discuss here how intelligence is measured but for me, a non-English speaker, smart is a little bit different. Remember there are surely people with extremely high IQs but who are emotionally cold. And I'd prefer her being in the working life and generally have a life of her own, not depend on me in everything. However, there are also women who really want to be housewives and there's nothing wrong with that. They're not there for me but yes, there's a huge market for them.

What I'm writing next probably will make many women readers angry but... OK, traditionally men have meen leaders, women followers. Right or wrong, that's a fact even feminists don't disagree on, they just fight against it. Might it be possible that the willingness to be more intelligent, dominate and lead would then be somewhere in our genes? If so, it's very hard to get rid of it. It's like it's not going to happen that in one day most men simply start preferring women that are taller than them either.

Roba, what the man you referred to was right in, is that dumber people are easier to handle. That's a fact, although I don't know why someone would opt for a dumb partner anyway.

Erm, I've met just a handful of Jordanian men in my life but anyway, it's perhaps not good for the sake of gender equality to call them machismo pigs anyway. Neither would I call feminists cows in this blog.

WB

By Western Brother, at 6:44 PM
about the response to class, in general the largest class signifier is where one goes to universsity. I have seen time and again people who are incredibly wealthy, go half way across the world to study at a community college in the states despite the fact that they would probably get a better education at university of Jordan, university of Jordan in my humble opinion is probably better than most community or vocational colleges in the united states.

So assuming that these friends of yours are at university in Jordan, they are not the the upper cut of elite segment of Jordanian society I was talking about. There do exit exceptions mostly with gilrs where parents, even incredibly wealthy ones, would rather send their kids to university at home because of backward tribalist notions of protecting her honoour and keeping her under watch. That does exist to some extent, where honour overcomes issues of class. It's funny how one negative social trned overcomes another negative one,

In terms of women suited to care for the kids, perhpas an argument can be amde that in the short term, less than a year after birth a woman would have to breast feed, but that's abut it, I really do think that taking care of the kids can be a shared responsibility and should be by no means the woman's responsiblity alone.

I also said quality of education and not level of education alone, I am sure there are alot of Phds out there from colleges that are not that good. but in general a relatively good college enables the student to start thinking in a more informed manner, that is why there exists a large differential between college graduates and high school graduates, even with taking out professionals from the equation (doctors, lawyers, and engineers) someone studying histoy or cutltural anthoropolgy at uni, stands to make a lot more money after graduation even if that person enver works in that filed ever again, because a college education gives the individual a whole host of skills and develops critical thinnking

once again, a shared power and income dynamic is preferable to a one sided form with submission and domination

khaled

By Anonymous, at 7:16 PM
if you don't mind i would like to ask you a question,
I always wanted to ask a feminist and here you are!

What's your view on Artistic Nudity?
do you feel it's neccessary to be used in Art?
Don't you think it's being far too exploited by
some artist communities?

omar

By Omernos, at 9:30 PM
The desire to be with a spouse who you believe is less intelligent (and easier to manage) is indicative of insecurity. Period.

A man secure in himself will be more drawn to an intelligent woman than a dull woman because

a) She is more stimulating company

b) On the reproductive level, he will be drawn to the ability to produce smart children, thus increasing the likelihood that his genes will continue.

Unfortunately, in masculinist societies, such as found frequently in the Arab world and Latin America, the male identity is linked to domination of the female. Hence, a man is made to feel inferior unless he dominates women. This attitude victimizes both men and women.

I get uneasy when I hear how muslim men are told to "look after" women. Behind this apparently Chivalric impulse is an unhealthy need for control.

By 21stCenturyShea, at 10:09 PM
I can't stand living with a woman that is not smart...

By Abed. Hamdan, at 10:11 PM
A joke that Roba might appreciate:

A woman doing research into intelligence stumbles across a business which actually sells brains. So this lady researcher goes to the brain shop. To her indignation she finds the price for the female brain is less than the price for the male brain. She asks the storekeeper why this is.

He replies, "Because the woman's brain has been used." :)

By 21stCenturyShea, at 10:18 PM
Roba:
I have a somewhat different perspective on 'gender roles' than most because I happen to have been brought up in a lesbian household (in the 'conformist' 1950s in suburban New Jersey). It was an old-fashioned 'butch-femme' relationship, with my actual mother, Billie, being the 'mannish' one of the two, and Claire, her long-time partner (they were together over thirty years and the relationship only ended with Claire's death) the more 'feminine.' One of the reasons why I cherish this fact -- besides the fact that they happen to have been better parents than those of any friend I have had during my lifetime -- is the fact that I learned very early that what you could or 'should' do had no relationship to the type of genitalia you possess, but rather to your basic abilities and interests.

As for the 'smarter/dumber' question, it bothers me because it is so meaningless. It assumes that the words are absolutes and they AREN'T. Smarter or dumber on which topic. Even ability to use your brain, if maybe a little more sensible, frequently depends on what you are talking about.

By Prup (aka Jim Benton), at 12:22 AM
I think in this context, "dumber" actually stands for "submissive," i.e. won't challenge the man's opinions and will coddle his fragile ego at every opportunity.

By Natalia, at 12:39 AM
the only thing I hate more than women are stupid women...haha.

By Sami, at 4:29 AM
I can't help but admire you courage. Maybe the Arab world change since i was there last (Yes I am an Arab). Sad to say that Ruba's thoughts are still considered radical these days. Keep on fighting the good fight.
Fadi

By Anonymous, at 6:59 AM
I had this same discussion a week ago with my moms German friend. And she was like" Ohoud, please dont think like that, or you'll end up to be a spinster just like me!

I couldnt but laugh, cause I dont think that its demanding and I dont think Im asking for something that is ubnormal, nor that I'm a feminist.

Seeing example wihtin my family give me hope, my sister husband actually does the dishes and helps out at home, and they have the same degree and teach at the same uni, and have a collaborative clinic. Ya3ni basically have the same amount of work:)

But to put it in another context,or not to take it "as is", I also tend to understand it as "the protective instinct" in men, they feel we're the weaker and thus feel they should be kind of superior in a sense of protection. thus knowing better is part of the package.

By Ohoud, at 8:47 AM
Omernos, interesting question. I believe I once wrote a post about that- let me dig... here you go.
I personally find that there is a big division between pornography and nudity. As a liberal, I believe that whether not a person looks at pornography is a personal choice, yet I personally find it extremely distasteful, demeaning (not to women mind you, but to humanity in general), and disgusting.
Nudity, in art for example, is on the other hand something that arouses wonder and fascination about the human body, memoralizing its beauty.
Now, since you asked this question in a discussion of feminism, I'm guessing you're asking how I feel about the objectification of women. Personally, what I hate the most about the whole issue of objectification is that men don't understand that women objectify men too- because women, as far as most men are concerned, are scathe, prudish, and unfleshly. Otherwise they are sluts. That really pisses me off.

By Roba, at 12:01 PM
Although I left you a huge comment back there,
which I might consider a journal entry itself -- LOL
bass I would like to add something I didn't discuss over
which is the objectification.

I sometimes get surprised how massive amount of women
are literally asking to be objectified by their huge
obsession about the image. I found this in one country,
but I won't mention names.

Ya3nee even the Female role models popping on TV are
setting degrading example for girls to be. I'm not
sure if that's relevant, but I feel these female singers
are somehow sending messages to females to get all
dolled up for their man. I even find Destiny's Child's
song "Cater To You" a bit strange, shu kayneh 5addameh
3end elly 5allafook?!?! Heik lazem el reply.

Many others are trying to stand up for their fellow
female and women around the world -- Ever since Aretha
Franklin, TLC and some others.

Thanks to Mr. Cent and Mr. Chingy for letting us know
that women exist on this earth's surface to lick lollipops
and do their right thurrs...
Urgh...

Sorry again for eating up the space,
Sam7eeeni LOL

omar

By Omernos, at 3:08 PM
hi roba

actually some of the points are right i mean women 's role shouldnt be neglected among society but i think that she could be performing two roles at the same time(working and her role as a house wife) otherwise a collapse will occurr in the family and i have to agree on the comments of the others that if you really think that yes you will never get married (unfortunately ) .
thnx

By Anonymous, at 8:37 PM
last anonymous, whatever her thoughts are, how can you decide she will never get married!, can’t you assume that not all the men think in the same way! don’t you know the fact that you can never know!

By husams, at 2:05 AM
Dang, anonymous, that's a stereotype. Haven't you ever heard of stay-at-home dads?

My 11th grade English teacher and cross country coach, a brilliant man and a graduate of Williams College (one of the best liberal arts schools in the U.S.), is currently a stay-at-home dad. His wife, Soraya (her family is from Iran), is a doctor and earns more, so it makes sense for him to stay home with their new kid, now that she's no longer breastfeeding.

They're a very happy family and their world is definitely not collapsing. Neither did my grandmother's, when she had my father, and went back to med school the following semester full-stop, while her mother took care of the kid. And that was in the 1950's! In the USSR!

By Natalia, at 3:10 AM
Furthermore, what's this obsession with marriage? Shoo, a woman's greatest achievement is a wedding ring? It boggles my mind when people try to put us back in our "place" with threats such as "you'll end up a spinster."

Frankly, if getting married involved discarding my core values, I wouldn't much care for the idea. Thank God I happen to live in a community that does not demand that from me, because I think marriage can be a very positive thing, if approached with the right attitude.

By Natalia, at 3:13 AM
great example Natalia

By husams, at 5:33 AM
yes but the mother's role is much more important than a working women 's role since it includes the great sucrifice and the teaching and as well as the emotional support that the man can not pose to his children due to being busy in "the bread wining process"
thnx

By Anonymous, at 2:14 PM
natalia
stay at home dad 's

this is really bad you must watch sum3a (in la tjeebo sireh) when the wife is working and the man is as u say at home ;

thn let me knw wht u think
thnx

By Anonymous, at 2:31 PM
I'm enjoying your blog. I have a myspace with the 'just a girl' theme going. Funny how a 32 yr old teacher in Texas can have similar views as a 21 yr old in Saudi Arabia. Thanks for making me think, and thanks for making me smile. Now I think I'm going to have to go make some Saudi champagne...mmmm.

By Anonymous, at 12:33 AM
I’d like to marry a woman who I can learn from as much as I can teach, sharing ourselves, our knowledge and our views equally. I don’t know if I’m specifically looking for someone smarter, but I know that I could never stand being with someone dumber.

As for what happens to “women like you” you end up marrying the best men, because all the stupid men are out looking for stupider women….

By tomer, at 2:37 PM
A stay-at-home dad is "bad"? Please. I've never watched sum3a is, and frankly, I don't car toe, since I have many live examples of stay-at-home dads in front of my eyes. They include old teachers (such as the one I mentioned above), the husbands of successful businesswomen in my community, and a good friend from Europe who's actually on paternity leave right now (yes, some countries actually have such a thing, and yes, their economies have not collapsed). I don't need a TV show, or whatever (I assume sum3a is a TV show), to formulate an opinion on this matter.

Also there is no such thing as one woman being more "important" than another woman. Please don't try to qualify other women's achievements. My grandmother was a working woman for fifty years, and she saved hundreds, of not thousands of lives, not to mention the fact that she and my father remained very close their entire lives. They are super-close to this day. So don't give me this "who's more important" BS. All human beings are important.

People seem to have this notion that a) A mother cannot work and be a good mother and b) A father cannot provide the same emotional support as a mother. That's complete and utter bollocks. Different people make different parents. Period.

By Natalia, at 1:26 AM
natalia

plz be realistic for only one time ; you are so kidding ur self

By Anonymous, at 10:41 AM
Yes, I'm "kidding" myself, because my family and my friends are real-life examples of this sort of thing.

Meanwhile, you're being "realistic" because you watch TV and subscribe to a bunch of stereotypes. Oh boy!

It's been fun.

By Natalia, at 9:17 PM
Hello Roba and Audience:

I think there are a lot of people who, and I would say both men and women, would hate to be with someone smarter than them. We are naturally rather competitive people aren't we? Males especially feel the need to one up their counterparts if they are in a society that says that they are supposed to be the leaders of the family. Its hard to feel like you are the leader if your counterpart is smarter. But let me share a dream with you. The women I have loved the most in my life have been women who are at least on an equal plane intellectually, if not more so, than myself. Now, I love to explore life, ideas, cultures, etc... and a lot of that requires an academic mind. I'm an archaeologist, scholar, linguist and theologian, and I love to be able to have a conversation with people about these things on an equal plane. One of my professors, now 85 years old, models one of the things that I think man and woman are meant to share together in a relationship, mental brilliance. She has, on her own and with him, learned all the languages he speaks and studies, and has become quite a linguist herself, so much so, that the current three volume work that he is producing was an idea that came from her and has been worked on jointly for quite some time. I hope that my wife, whoever she might be, will be able to share my lifes passions with me, and me be able to share her life passions, or just find someone who shares mutual life passions with me, and something that we can deal with on an equal plane. Intelligence is a quality I have always valued, and a woman with as much or more than me would be wonderful. However, no one likes anyone who flaunts their intelligence or lords it over you, whether that person is a man or woman, husband or wife. Mutual respect and love are always required.

Okay, I'm done with my soap box. In summary: intelligent women are great! I love 'em!

By Anonymous, at 2:11 AM